Episode 2

Oct 17

Ramel J. Wallace

“To care is a creative choice.”

“[Art is] preservation of different feelings that we can tap into . . . this constant rearticulation of the self. And to be part of an ecosystem where we remind ourselves of our reflections, we remind ourselves of one another - because it's hard to see ourselves. And so these different communities remind us and they help each other. We help each other see ourselves and we know how powerful that is.”
- Ramel Wallace

"I do have a drive and a purpose to transform these spaces into a better reflection of what creativity can be and how it can liberate people." - Ramel J. Wallace

Ramel Wallace is a community agent who specializes in identity, community, and creativity. He is a San Diego native, educator, poet, and Hip Hop storytelling artist. For over a decade now, he has used his voice to tell stories and to invite others to create art and share their stories. He co-founded thChrch, a creative incubator and community space, and is also owner of The Holyfield, a media company which evolved from its earlier roots as a community music studio. He is a board member of the San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art, and he is also the first Black host of Creative Mornings San Diego. We’ll be talking about how practices like mindfulness and stillness support his creativity and social justice efforts, and how hope and storytelling inform his work in lifting up others and bringing about change.

Footnotes:
Learn more about Ramel Wallace's work
Find out more about Creative Mornings, the world's largest face-to-face creative community
Read Audre Lorde's essay Poetry Is Not A Luxury
Listen to Cornel West speak about hope and also it's relationship to optimism and despair

**GUEST - RAMEL WALLACE**

Ramel Wallace is from San Diego, California. He has done voiceover acting for luxury sunglasses company 9five Eyewear, Fujistu, public relations firm BAM Communications, artistic photography organization Unity in Color and many more. He is the co-Founder of thChrch, a creative incubator and community space and currently the owner of The Holyfield & board member at the San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art. His roots as a Hip Hop artist has created a lifestyle that is centered around vocalizations and storytelling. He has performed alongside Action Bronson, Adrian Young, and Apollo Blacc. He has spoken at Creative Mornings, USD, UCSD, SDSU, A Reason to Survive (ARTS), David's Harp Foundation, BAM Communications, San Diego Museum of Art, San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art, San Diego Art Institute Balboa Park and many other nonprofits and institutions about how to use art as a form of social activism and therapy.

*Image from* *The Last Black Man in Barrio Logan Project*

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Desiree Aspiras:
You've talked before about how you've used art as a form of social activism and also using it to bring communities together. And so I'm just curious about where did the seeds of that begin? Because I'm sure you didn't wake up, or maybe you did, you know, like when you were six, like this is what I want to do, but you know, where did the seeds of that get planted? When did that get sparked for you?

Ramel Wallace:
Oh, this is a good question that'll lead me down some different memory lanes of where I got started. My first raps or writings were prayers before I ate. I was like, oh, God is about to get these raps cause that's the best form that I knew how to put it in, or these poetry bars, to give thanks. And so I remembered that it was always some type of devotional thing.

That was part of the process. It's like, okay, this will be the best way that I could show gratitude or say thank you. I also grew up around five percenters, which are like, it's almost like this different version of Islam that a lot of hip hop artists attribute to and they follow supreme mathematics. And so it's a numerology and a philosophy. And so one of those is knowledge.

Before you can really be a hip hop artist or a poet, you had to actually attain knowledge. And so that came through reading different types of books, having different types of conversations, but the accumulation of knowledge so that you have a lot of sources to pull from was always the bigger practice. And that's something that resonated with me.

And at the same time having cousins that got into making music, they were more so on like the street life, telling that street story. And that didn't necessarily resonate with me as much with like, oh, I really want to pursue this discovery of the world and myself through music. That was always a lot more interesting for me. And then once I started to do that, I kind of, it's like call and response. I put these things out into the world and then it comes back to me in some type of a beautiful way. I was just reading Audrey Lorde's Poetry Is Not a Luxury. And she talks about poetry. This was the first class, it was a woman studies class that I took in college. So as I'm formulating that I'm gonna be a storyteller in different types of forms. I'm running into these different philosophies. And her whole thing is that poetry is not a luxury. And in fact, it's giving form and shape to emotions that we do not yet have a word for, or feeling that we do not have a word for. So formulating the nameless is a part of creating the future and being sustainable as a community.

And so these were some of the most beautiful philosophies that I learned. It was extremely innovative and it was giving light to the fact that poetry is not just something that feels good or that rhymes or that uses figures of speech. It's also something that can protect, that can articulate, that can shape the future in different ways. So it was just so magical when I was introduced to those experiences, rather than just, I'm gonna say the coolest metaphor that you could ever hear in your life.

Aspiras:
Right, right. And I'm really appreciating what you're saying about how poetry is not a luxury and that it can be this avenue where we can, like you said, put words to something that we are attuning to and that we haven't named yet. And then we're also, and you've talked about this, I've read and heard you talk about this before, how art and what we create is taking something that's inside of us or happening inside of us and helping to, when we make art, it's helping to create ourselves, it's helping to name things, it's helping to, like you've mentioned, it helps us to go beyond ourselves. And so I'm just really appreciating what you're describing. And so in terms of the poetry and the hip hop, when did some of that begin to arise for you?

Wallace:
Oh, I took a poetry class with Miss Jimenez at Grossmont High School. And that's really when I started to dive deeper into poetry and storytelling. And then I started rapping on the side and my my girlfriend at the time found out that I rapped and then she told everybody I was this really good rapper. So ego made me turn like, okay, I'm just going to go jump into this and do it.

And so I just ended up blinking, connecting with the right people, listening to music and beats together. The poetry at school with Miss Jimenez class was elevating. I ended up speaking at it was a Black History Month auditorium performance. So I ended up performing this poem called My Nose is My Name, where you take something that you're insecure about, and then you write a whole poem about it.

Aspiras:
Mm-hmm.

Wallace:
And so it was about my nose and it really resonated. And it talked about my history being Black and what the nose represented through time. And, uh, yeah, it just, it just empowered people so much, especially to do it on the stage and the auditorium, to be empowered by it. And, yeah, I just took it from there from high school. Once I learned that power in it, really.

Aspiras:
Oh wow.

Wallace:
I never let go and help me articulate myself. And with the company I have The Holyfield and that's like the thing that does all the admin behind the artist more so and the branding and the marketing things like that and the scheduling. I have a phrase called “Artifacts articulate our arteries.” So there's all these words that start with the word art. And I feel like it, just like you were saying, it gives us a chance to actually articulate ourselves to ourselves and have us understanding each other on a deeper level. Because I feel like you can understand other people a lot more when you understand yourselves and then you don't really put it on the weight of them. It's just like you can learn from each other by example. And the poetry, the hip hop, the storytelling allowed me to learn from myself by example.

Aspiras:
Mm-hmm. I love that phrase that you said a moment ago how creating that art helps us to articulate something back to ourselves or articulate ourselves. And you know, as you're talking about poetry and art and I know you exploring identity is also and cultivating identity and supporting people's developing their identity is important to you and some of what you've done. And I'm thinking about how, you know, this art making process is a way of attuning to, you're slowing down, attuning to looking at what's actually here, right? What's going on inside of me? And I've heard you mentioned before that stillness is really important to be able to hear some of what's going on in order to be able to then create our art out of it. So I'm wondering if you would talk about your relationship with stillness and contemplation and how that influences what you're doing.

Wallace:
Oh, I like that question. Right now, I'm practicing mindfulness. And so I'll do a lot of deep breathing when I'm out. And that always helps me to be more aware than anything. And then also at my day job, we have a Hindu priest that comes and his name is Dhana Pani, and he helps us on focusing. And so slowing down, at first it just seems like you're resting so much, but it takes a lot of focus to slow down your thoughts. It really does. And so we have this whole metaphor of like a ball of light going through a house. And so trying to control that ball of light as your focus. And once you get that focus, it brings awareness. And so there's always been a lot of Eastern philosophies that have brought me towards stillness.

Aspiras:
Hmm.

Wallace:
And so whether it's like a Hindu or whether it's practicing mindfulness, uh, even hip hop, the first thing that we would do, and I would see that alignment to, uh, to stillness is you would listen to the beat. You would really be quiet. You might listen to the beat maybe 10 times and just see what it feels like. And it's like the person that's the producer on you, the beat is saying, okay, he's the guy he's saying, Oh, what does this feel like? And then after you listen to it too many times, you enter another form of stillness. And you just go out and do something else. And so stillness has always been something that has arisen as almost a form of play as well. Considering, breathing, imagining the infinity will of the breath going inside of you, it becomes this form of play.

because it's kind of hard to do. And I kind of want to take it to different places and see where can I find the stillness? Because it's always there, and we tend to focus on the things that are not still. And so I use that because it builds creativity for me, and it just builds calmness in myself. Because as an artist, being so ambitious is something like where we have the survival instinct in us.

So we fight a lot of reasons to rest. We don't know how to rest as much because we wanna accomplish the goals. So the stillness also allows me to bring sustainability. I don't wanna listen to a beat all day. I don't wanna be writing a story all day. I wanna have stillness be something that is a part of that practice. And then when it comes to the Holyfield, one of the philosophies before we got into it was the Heart Sutra. And so it has a phrase where it says “no eyes, no ears, no mouth, no tongue.” So it was really about this stillness. And at the same time, I'm getting into Buddhism, Nichiren Buddhism, and specifically they're talking about what comprises a room? You have the four walls.
It's mostly filled with the empty space and so in creating these houses of creativity, that empty space is going to be crucial to creating anything. When it comes to the universe that empty space that stillness is a pivotal part to anything that gets created amongst the stillness so
although we can't see it, it's one of the biggest contributions to anything creative, anything healing, anything life-giving, anything emotional that we can connect to.

Aspiras:
Yeah, that space, that spaciousness that gets created when, like you've mentioned, we can commit to some stillness and to some breathing and to some focusing.
You've also, I think I've also heard you talk about walking as a practice. Is that something that is also a time for reflecting and contemplation for you? Or is it, you know, we live in San Diego, it's beautiful outside.

Wallace:
Yeah.

Aspiras:
Yeah, what's do you still do that as a regular practice? What what does that do for you?

Wallace:
You know, I've always had different types of mentors. And so I had heard about the Einstein, how he discovered the theory of relativity. He's like hammering away at it, hammering away at it. And then he has like a dream. And then for some reason he ends up going on a walk and then just kind of pops up. It's like when you're doing nothing, something will just pop up and walking was one of the things. So it's like dreaming and walking.

are part of the recipe. And so things like that, learning that information, doing meditation, we have this meditation and I'm not sure exactly what it was called, but we would do it where it was an hour long for 20 minutes, meditate with your eyes open. So you're looking at everything and that's part of the practice. So you could go into any location and turn it on.
After the minute you go around and you walk and you just breathe with every step that you take you breathe and then When your foot hits the ground you exhale when your foot lifts the ground you inhale and so that's the practice and the motion I go in and it's such a Aligning thing with your breathing and your body
And it reminds you and then it flows into other places when you do that practice. So walking can sprout creative ideas, it can help you with that play, and it can help you interact with your entire body. Because I feel like there's so many times where we're ignoring or forgetting different parts of our body, not even thinking about how our foot hits the floor. But that can be something that's so fun and so liberating to do when you connect with your body, even in these simple ways, like I'm gonna align my breathing to how I'm walking is a practice of mindfulness that'll help you reach and enter these places of stillness and sustain your creativity.

Aspiras:
Yeah, so I'm hearing that sustaining thread that nourishes you throughout some of these practices. I'm also wondering if any of these practices of, you know, you mentioned deep breathing, focusing, walking, meditation, how, if at all, has that supported your, not just your creative capacity, which you've touched on a little bit, but also your capacity to be engaged in social activism, to be engaged in this community work, which is not always easy. So I'm wondering if it does, or if you've noticed ways that impacts how you show up.

Wallace:
Oh, I appreciate this question, especially in the kind of like, you know, this questioning your creativity, because I feel like more so than anything, it's a problem solver and it'll help you reach awareness more than anything. I recently went to Pensacola, Florida to go visit family. It was a family reunion and I had never seen this side of the family. The first day I was like, I want to tell them so much about me. I can't wait. And I got to the family and I was so excited to tell them so much about me. And then just being aware and reading the room and listening to the conversations. I started to figure out like the creative idea that came up was, Oh, wow. I need to listen.

I don't need to just talk about me, I need to listen. And I feel like going into these activist spaces, these sensitive spaces, these nonprofits, organizations, listening is a really powerful tool, especially when you go into marginalized locations, you're going into places where people have not been listened to historically. And it's almost like to choose. And I would say creatively in a care way to choose to say, you know what, this is the time to listen deeply. I would argue that that's a creative choice. To care is a creative choice. And to do that in different ways, to really listen to people, not just their voices, but their bodies, and also what they're not saying in the conversation. Because there's so much that's said, but there's so much that is not said. So when I'm talking about creativity,
a lot of times, I need to be reminded that my form of creativity is problem solving, is awareness, is a way to sustain what we have going, to sustain joy and really be there for people and listen to them.

Aspiras:
Hmm, listening, and the choice to do that. It's so clear to me as I'm listening to you that you are constantly trying to be present and to be attuned and to go deeper and to connect into other people's experiences. And you mentioned just now the care that needs to be taken when we are in conversation in many different communities. And I'm also hearing how, and I've read about how you've wanted to be, or part of what's most important to you is speaking for the unspoken. And I would love to hear you talk a little bit more, this passion that you have for speaking for the unspoken and touching a little bit more on some of the ways that you're doing that right now.

Wallace:
Oh, that's a good thing. I mean, that's a good question because I feel like there's a narrative that we see whenever we go on social media, we listen to the news. There's a certain narrative that we see, and there's a certain narrative that we don't see. Being in Barrio Logan, or National City now, or entering the South Bay, being so close to the border.

Wallace:
You don't hear as many border stories as are there if you're in the South Bay. Like what does that look like? What does the deportation look like? How does it affect families? How does it have people, you know, lives in a scared way? They don't know what's gonna happen or if they're safe to get deported. I recently had an event and one of the issues with that event was they asked for the citizenship. And there was a big worry of, oh, is this some sort of setup that's going on? So how can I use the position that I have to bring these conversations into play? Because I don't see them happening on a regular basis or being happening in an intersectional way where maybe I should bring that up and not just the person that is crossing the border every day. Cause they're
really busy in that mix of trying to survive. So how do you bring topics to discussion and not take over the topics is really the balance. Like how do I still give space at the same time and say, this is what I'm hearing from the areas that I'm around that I don't see on the news and everything. Might see it on TikTok, but this is what's going on. You can go here, here to actually check those places out.

And so a lot of times the music will be like, or the poem will be like, or the community conversation will be like, oh, hey, this is what I'm seeing is happening. And then go into the organization, you'll get that deeper understanding. And so even doing Creative Mornings, which is the biggest breakfast lecture in the world, giving people a platform, and I'm not sure if you can hear the alarms.

Aspiras:
That's okay. Yeah, yeah.

Wallace:
Giving people I'm National City. So hey, you never know what's going down. I always like to hear them go by I do so. I hope they're doing okay.

But with creative mornings, meeting up every last Friday of the month, free donuts, free coffee, and a 20-minute lecture, giving that space to people that are going to through things not just through things but like through life.
And although it's a space for creativity, it's also this space where we had a death doula come in January and talk about the process of what does that look like? And that's around where I don't really see a lot of people covering that, but it's something that we all have to worry about. We had Border Angels come in and they talked about that process of dropping water off to the people that are crossing the border.

Aspiras:
Yes.

Wallace:
And so for me, that's a creative choice and that's a caring choice. And it's like, how do we get people more information about these things that they don't really know about that have been really beneficial for people? And so I'm always trying to give other people like a literal voice or just give awareness to their voice in some type of way. And I'm supported by a lot of strong communities, a lot of people like you that are, that hold me accountable in those places as well. So I'm always learning in that process.

Aspiras:
Yeah, I'm just really appreciating how... When did you begin to host Creative Mornings?

Wallace:
I started hosting Creative Mornings in 2021.

Aspiras:
2021, okay. So it's been a minute! Yeah, and I'm really appreciating how, I think right when you started, I read, I believe it was an AIGA interview where you were talking about, you know, stepping into this role and looking at the landscape and saying, hmm, this is a great, this is...a great offering to the community and there should be a wider array of voices in here. And it's clear that you've been in choice about who's being invited to come up on that stage, and what you're highlighting, whose voices you're highlighting, what issues are being highlighted that haven't been highlighted before on that kind of platform. It's really been incredible. Have you, and that's because you've been paying attention and attuned and making important choices. And I'm wondering what you've heard back from the community of people who attend creative mornings and if you've heard, what have you heard from them on the kind of lineup that you have created and allowed to unfold.

Wallace:
I've heard great things, because it's not only that these stories are unheard, these stories are amazing! They give you life. People have been saying that this is church for creativity or for creatives, because it's that vibe. I don't want people to forget, this stuff is dope, this stuff is heart-feeling. And so these are not just,
We're not just trying to balance it and say that, oh, okay, these stories also need to be told. Although they do, these stories are incredible. So we've had Blake Dye was there last time. He brought the full band and he's doing Soul Sunday doing that month as well at The Courtyard. It's incredible. When Sarah Knapp was there talking as the death doula, the entire
like community was there crying. Like you felt your emotions and like art and creativity’s supposed to be emotional. Whether you're crying or laughing or feeling despair or delight or joy, like it tugs at your emotions in some sort of way. And there's been a lot of incredible speakers. So it's been a great response. And
You know, I didn't know that going into it. You know, it was traditionally a white space, especially in around 2016, 17, a little bit before that, the Ted Talk era was taking over. And creative meant white at that time. And I thought that the appropriation of that watered it down. Like this is a way that my lineage had traditionally healed, traditionally found freedom, traditionally used creativity to escape bondage, to tell stories, to hide agriculture within their cornrows. And so it meant a lot more to me when I think of creative. And so I would walk into those spaces using that mindfulness, and knowing that the proximity to whiteness is something that is violent to people's psychology. So a lot of the mindfulness was always used to protect myself too, because I know the capacity of what that could do to people in spaces. But knowing that I do have a proximity and I do have a drive and I do have a purpose to transform those spaces into a better reflection of what creativity can be and how it can liberate people.

Aspiras:
Liberation is the goal. And we get there by doing some of this inner work, right? That you've clearly been on the journey and practicing
but we won't get there without being in the collective also. And so I'm just appreciating this swirl of ideas and words that we're exchanging right now. We’re talking about highlighting and hearing what's been not just unheard, but you know, been sometimes deliberately unheard or not invited in.

There was a recent grant you received by San Diego City related to the border and creating art.

Wallace:
Yes, that's the far south border grant that I was awarded. And a few of my friends as well. And so I don't know exactly the project that I'm gonna do, but it's gonna get focused to most likely social justice in San Diego. And I've been covering a lot of housing issues, a lot of conversations about deportation. And so most likely I'm gonna cover that. And work with arts or reason to put together a project. We got about, we got a good size grant. And so that's the focus right now. Focus on the South Bay, collaborate with organizations that are covering housing and covering the border and come up with something really solid that showcases what I'm doing and what's happening around the city.

Aspiras:

Mm-hmm. That sounds like it's gonna be amazing.

Wallace:
Super excited about it.

Aspiras:
Yeah, what's the timeline on this project?

Wallace:
I really hope so.

Wallace:
We have a year, we have a year to do it. And so I have a few things bubbling and I have an album I just released called The Last Black Man in Barrio Logan. And it talks about how I have four generations in Barrio Logan in this same little townhouse. And so I have all these photos of being down there back when I was running the church, the creative studio. And then I'll have a bunch of photos different family members living in the same yellow house. So that might be a way that I showcase the introduction into the South Bay and the border, especially from like an inside outside perspective.
So just playing around with ideas right now.

Aspiras:
like that discovery exploratory phase.

Wallace:
Yeah.

Aspiras:
And so, gosh, I still have so many questions to ask you, but I'm watching the clock. I will be mindful of the time. I've heard you talk about how...

Aspiras:
You have to be the hope. And how, and I really love this phrase, I wrote it down, that there has to be a biodiversity of hope in order for it to survive. And I, there's so much in that. Yeah, so, yeah, I just wanted to reflect that back as something that I'd heard you talk about and ask you to share a little bit more about your thoughts on hope, how you keep it alive for yourself, and what role it plays for you in your work.

Wallace:
You brought me to a great mind space, because I remember when I was talking about that, the biodiversity of hope. A lot of it involves that stillness. You'll find a lot of hope within that stillfulness. And then a lot of it came from Cornel West, because Cornel West would talk about how you have to embody this hope. You can't just have hope, which was my introduction to it, which I think is great as well. It's like...when you have nothing at all, you have this idea of hope, which is seeing yourself succeed in the future. If you can see that, that's that thing that's nameless. I feel like that's that thing that Audre Lorde is talking about with poetry is not a luxury, is that hope, is that possibility that things can be different and things can change. But Cornel West taking it to this other level of
You have to actually embody and act on that hope and show that you believe that it's possible, that it's not just a dream. It can actually enter quotation and reality. That's a big part of it, but it's like we don't always have the same type of hope. And when I'm within communities, I'm introduced to other people's forms of hope, how they see themselves succeeding in the future.

Wallace: (08:48.484)
whether it's a mother saying, you know what, I'm gonna be a really good mother in the future to my child. And I'm gonna sustain that, or whether it's an artist that's like, you know what, I wanna elevate my artwork and become an illustrator and then an oil painter. But what type of hope do they exhibit? Like being within communities, especially that meet together, you also see people's hopes change as they evolve. And so...
We're all evolving beings. And so looking at myself as something that's not static, I'm growing just like the trees or just like the flowers that you can't see unless you do that little camera trick and speed it up. And so looking at ourselves as nature and taking people like Adrienne Marie Brown, where she really fuses the philosophies of nature and humanity and activism together.

Wallace:
and relating it to something like biodiversity. Like I need a biodiversity of hope to sustain myself as I'm a changing, growing part of the earth, just like everything else. I'm born, I live, I evolve, I decay. And as I go through all those transitions, collecting these different diversities of hope, and when I enter different phases saying, let me pick up...
what I learned from someone else and try to apply their version of hope to this new transition that I'm entering. And so it's a lot of collecting and also sharing the versions of hope that I've been introduced to as well. It's been very fulfilling and collecting. You're introduced to different ones.
when you're open to it. And once you open yourself up to it, it just continues to come in very beautiful ways that aren't dismissive, that are presented to you by people that really care about seeing you succeed. So it's like we become reflections of each other's hope. We become each other's hope. And so that's the power of community when you meet together is that you have the opportunity to be each other's hope.

Aspiras:
Hmm. Let me just sit in that for a moment.

I'm deeply listening right now to what you're sharing and tapping into. And you just mentioned, you mentioned transitions a few times, right? Where you mentioned nature, you mentioned that we are these beings that are in transition, that we're growing all the time. And sometimes, like you mentioned, we can't see it. We don't have that time-lapse photography, right? Where we can see what's actually happening and how far we're going, what is actually shifting, and how we're progressing. And I've been doing my homework and listening to some of the things that you've talked about before.

Wallace:
Yeah.

Aspiras:
And I heard you mention before, “when can we stop and observe that we are constantly changing? The crafts, the arts, the cultures, the things that people repeat, the traditions that really give us a chance to see our vision happening”, and how you've mentioned that artists are really capturing these transitions so that so that we can see. And I'm just wondering if you'd just say a little bit more about that, because I think that that's really important in terms of one of the functions of what makes art so important.

Wallace:
Yeah, the preservation of stories. I've been very lucky to work on the board at the San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art. And one of the phrases, one of the taglines is that we preserve Black culture. And that's what a lot of artists do, not specific to Black culture, but the preservation of what the activists have fought for. the preservation of movements, the preservation of feeling, art is almost like kombucha. It's like, how can we preserve this? And that's really what it is. It's a big preservation of different feelings that we can tap into. And it's a magical thing because as we live our lives, as we're transforming,

It's hard to see ourselves as we are. And then as we change, it's getting to know this new being. So it's this constant rearticulation of the self and to be part of an ecosystem where we remind ourselves of our reflections, like we remind ourselves of one another because it's hard to see ourselves. It's hard to see ourselves. And so these different communities, remind us and they help each other. They help, we help each other see ourselves and we know how powerful that is. And it's just funny to me, like that's one of the creative things, just to see yourself is a very magical experience to honor yourself and where you're at and how you've grown and how your parents have brought you to here.

Wallace:
There's a lot of gratitude in that process, but I don't wanna take away from how hard it is for us to see ourselves or how hard it is for me to see myself. So when I go out into the communities, I'm such a seeker because sometimes I don't know who I am or where I am and I need to be reminded of it.

Aspiras:
Mm-hmm. It reminds me of...

I'll probably butcher it. But something I've read, I don't know, probably in Buddhist literature or heard in Buddhist circles of how we...
like for awakening to happen, for growth to happen, that we have to be in relationship. You know, that's what's coming up for me as you, as you shared what you just did, that we need to encounter and be with other people in order to help us, in order to get that reflection back and in order to figure out where the heck we are.

Wallace:
Yeah, my mom told me this the other day. She said, she said it because she's trying to find me a wife. But she says something along the way. I was like, okay, I like that. She said that we dream, we dream together. Dream is not something that you just do by yourself or we even when you're in the process of the dream. There's, you're not in solitude.

There's things that are there. There's maybe there's other people, maybe there's plants, there's earth, there's animals that are there, but you dream together and you build together.

And she was talking about relationships and I was like, let me just apply that to life. Okay.

Aspiras:
Right, right. That's some mom wisdom right there.
Yeah, so, speaking of dreaming and being in the dream, what are you dreaming of for what's next?

Wallace:
I'm what I'm dreaming for right now. I'm in a practice of starting Artist’s Way. I've never done The Artist’s Way before. And so I'm thinking about, it's the first week but I've been going on and off. I'm thinking of my five alternate realities of what I would do in life. And so one is like, I would have been a preacher. One is I would have been a painter. One is I would have been a college
bound professor. And so looking at these different alternatives, one is a shroom farmer and playing around with these different alternative versions of myself. And then I also have a mentor, his name is Gary Ware. And so he's reminding me, oh yeah, you know Gary, yeah, he's good people. And so I just read his book.

Aspiras:
Oh yeah! Mm-hmm.

Aspiras:
Yeah, play!

Wallace:
Yes, yes, the Playful Rebellion. And so I'm looking at the things that I used to do when I was a child and to implement those into my life. And so as I get older, childhood gets older. So when I was like in high school, I loved to just drive around.

Wallace: (18:51.136)
listen to music, swap me, and so on, in these types of things a lot more. And then biking as well, because when you're a kid, you get a bike, that's when you become an adult during that Christmas. But focusing on those types of, I would say, playful, skillful things of like, what could I be and what do I like to practice, like historically as myself?

Wallace: (19:21.356)
But besides that, I'm doing like the...

Aspiras:
Yeah, a returning, a returning to the self.

Wallace:
Oh yeah, I'm gonna take that word and apply that to my life because I like how you're repeating returning, yes.

Aspiras:
Yeah, we get pulled away and this is, I've tried to complete the artist's way. And this conversation is reminding me that perhaps I should return to it. But yeah, there's a reason that people have found it so many things, nourishing, challenging.

And those morning pages are a real practice. So yeah, I'm just appreciating what you're sharing about stepping into that, the artist way. And just that process of returning to, oh, wait, what, again, this attuning, this stillness, this coming back to what are the parts that are actually still there, that I've gone away from that maybe I want to go back to. Yeah, I'm excited for you.

Wallace:
Thank you. And there'll be plenty of failure on ArtistWay. I think that's part of the process, because it's a lot. It's like, I'm going to do this the ArtistWay.

Aspiras:
It is a lot.

Yeah, because a part of it in that intro, she talks about that practice and that discipline. You're not, you'll get out what you put in. Which I appreciate. It's like in, I don't know, Mary Oliver, the poet, she wrote this poetry handbook and there's a passage in there where she talks about how...

you have to show up, right? You have to return to the same spot every day to sit down and write, to invite in, not just the practice of writing, but to connect with that spirit of creativity, essentially. If you're not showing up all the time, it's not gonna trust us and won't come when we want it right away. So I love that you're doing that. I mean, not that...

Wallace:
Yeah.

Aspiras:
No, I don't love that you're doing that, but I love hearing that you're giving this space to yourself, which is so important.

Wallace:
Thank you, thank you. And yeah, it's hard not to, you know, you say what am I up to, it's hard to not give a direct answer. But I feel like the more valuable thing is like, is providing space for these creative ideas to come up for what I'm gonna do and how I'm gonna perform. And it's getting in the practice of these things, even if I don't accomplish it now, you know, I'm in the, it's a practice. I'm in the practice of it. Maybe I'll get better.

Aspiras:
Mm-hmm.

Wallace:
10 years from now at an artist's way or something, but to implement it into a practice is part of any type of creating, whether it's artist way or just like you're saying, finding a space, meditating, returning to things that you used to do that give you joy. The practice of that will allow for a sustained, creative, joyful life to be lived.

Aspiras:
Is there anything else you'd like to speak on or put voice to that I haven't asked about that you would like to be a part of this conversation?

Wallace:
Maybe the latest thing that I'm doing right now, I just got accepted into Arlen Hamilton's Backstage Catalyst Apprenticeship Program. And so I'm looking at transforming The Holyfield into something that's in the form of like a VC firm that funds creatives to
to open a company for themselves or become a founder so that they can have different type of disposable incomes to pursue their creative outlets. But I want to fund artists. In 2024, in the middle of this class, I'll probably really start to focus on that. Maybe pick one or two artists a quarter to try to evolve them with The Holyfield and get them some type of VC-backed funding.

Aspiras:
Mm-hmm. Amazing. Massive. I mean, this is really part of your living dream right now is amazing. Congrats to you. You must be so excited. And we're all excited because, I mean, obviously you create magic in a lot of spaces. So this is incredible. I'm really excited for you.

Wallace:
Thank you, thank you. It's gonna be a good journey.

Aspiras:
brings me to maybe our final question for you. There's been so much here that we've talked about. Maybe what is a parting word or something you'd like to say to those listening who maybe.

Aspiras:
haven't found a space or whether that's internally or...
in their community, maybe someone who wants to step into their creative practice or is curious about, some of the things you've talked about, meditation, mindfulness. Is there anything that comes up in terms of what you might want to share?

Wallace:
Maybe that forgiveness will be a practice in all these things. And don't go too hard on yourself when you try to meditate or try to find mindfulness. Be kind with yourself and forgive yourself.

Aspiras:
Important words and lifelong work, I think.

Wallace:
Yeah

Aspiras:
But thank you, Ramel. It's been an amazing conversation. I'm so thankful that you've taken the time out of what I know is a very busy schedule and life to have this conversation with me and to share some of your experiences and wisdom with us. So thank you.

Wallace:
Thank you for the work that you're doing with Deep Breath, coming to Creative Mornings, collaborating at BAM, and being a space where people can share their voice, especially with this podcast. And I'm looking forward to hearing how other people use mindfulness and care to sustain their creativity, because you don't always hear about it. You just see the final results. So it'll be cool to see the behind the scenes. So I appreciate you and building that.

Aspiras:
Thank you.

Wallace:
Thank you, peace.

Desiree Aspiras

Episode 2

Ramel J. Wallace

“To care is a creative choice.”

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Episode 3

Episode 1